Tandem Talks: The Art of Annotating

Jen - Hello and welcome to the Tandem Collective Talks podcast.

Lex - Tandem Collective celebrates books, film, TV, podcasts and more with our global community.

Lucy - We’re Jen, Jaide, Lucy and Lex, members and friends of Team Tandem. You might already know us from Instagram or TikTok, but if not, it's great to meet you and welcome.

Jen - We're here to chat to you about what's new in the world of books, publishing and film, interview some of your favorite authors and hear your thoughts on what you're reading and watching at the moment. 

Jaide - You can find us at @tandemcollectiveuk on Instagram and also @tandemcollectiveglobal

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Lex - Hello everyone and welcome back to the Tandem Collective Talks podcast. You're here with me, Lex, and I've got Lucy and Jen with me too. And today we're delving a little bit deeper into the art of annotating. We mentioned it briefly in our episode with Jack Jordan. So if you haven't listened to that already, you should. And then come back and join us for a bit of a chat about annotating whether we do or whether we don't, and what our general feelings are about it.

So, Jen, why don't you kick us off? Give us a gut reaction. What do you think about when you think about annotating? 

Jen - So I think about annotating as being primarily drawing on books, which I have nothing to do with. I have my books extensively so that I can take them out again afterwards, but I can't do any form of annotating that involves a permanent mark on a book.

Lex - I like that. It's quite a hard and fast rule. Tabs. Yay! Pens? Nay. Lucy Jones.

Lucy - Yeah. So I was thinking about this obviously before this recording and I'm in the Jen camp. Like tabbing is absolutely fine. Do do. Do it fairly often, but not necessarily with every book I read for pleasure. And I was thinking about the differences between reading for pleasure versus reading for work. Which, you know, we're all lucky we get to read a lot of books in a work capacity.

And I think I, I associate annotating more with like a studying kind of reading vibe, which I know that you've mentioned before Lex, that when you're reading the nonfiction, you kind of that isn't as much of an issue when it comes to annotating because you're thinking about that book serving a purpose or it's, you know, it's often teaching something, whereas when I'm reading for pleasure, I think in all honesty, I just I sometimes forget to annotate or to tab because I'm it's a good book and I'm really lost in it that part of it that goes for me.

Lex - Yeah, I think that makes total sense. I was just thinking about what I do when it comes to reading for pleasure and I typically don't. If it's just a book that I've chosen that I'm just going to sit and enjoy, I won't tab, I won't annotate, I won't do anything like you said, I will just be swept along by the story.

But if it is a work book, I will tab the hell out of it. I recently read a book that is about 700 pages long, which is the longest book I've read in a really long time. And I've really committed to my tabbing in the sense that in the title page of the book, I stuck my four different colours of tabs, and I wrote on the colours of tabs what they were correlating to.

So this is the title page of a book that I've just read, and I've got a little pink tab for plot points worth noting, I've got green for character defining moments, blue, where I need to write a question or a challenge, and then orange, quotes to remember. And I think actually that method for this particular book, because it was so long, was super useful because when it came back to writing the report on the book, I could come back to it and write the questions a lot easier.

It was a lot less faffing about. So I think when it comes to work books, I'm a complete tabbing convert and will continue to be. But yeah, I can't quite bring myself to put pen to paper now.

Lucy - I agree. And like, you know, Jen, adamant that she would never do that. But I think I associate it more with the books I studied when I was younger. But also, if you're sharing books or passing books on to friends or other people that you think might enjoy them, you don't want to pass on a book that's got like your scrawl all over it.

Like I like well, I like the idea regardless of if I'm passing it on to somebody or not. I like the idea of books remaining pristine. Hmm.

Jen - I also like with tabbing, I feel if I finish a book for work and I haven't done any kind of annotating, I don't have that much of a sense of accomplishment. But if it's got hundreds of tabs in it, I can look at it like, Wow, look at all that work I did. I am an impressive lady. 

Lucy - Yeah. It's so funny. When we moved house, my partner found a copy, but it's still the copy from when I did my GCSEs of To Kill A Mockingbird. And that is like scrawled all over in this pink biro that I had at the time. And some of the annotations from like my 15 year old self are just so funny because it's just like one word here and there, like stress, heartbreak, etc. It was really quite funny

Yeah, it does. It reminds me of a younger time in school. But actually writing on books, I just don't think I could bring myself to do it now.

Lex - I think. Luce, to your point about sharing books and what happens then if you've scribbled all over it, I actually found a really helpful book in the library at university, and I’d clearly taken it out the year after somebody else had taken the same class that I had taken. And their notes in the margins of this book were very helpful for me writing my essay at the end of that semester, that was very useful.

I was like ‘Oh, great. This is kind of like my own Half-Blood Prince situation here where I can go, great, you've done the work for me’ but yeah that is the only beneficial point to annotating in books, I think. Although I've just seen Sarah Pearce, who is the author of The Retreat and The Sanatorium, she just unboxed a book, I think it's a copy of The Retreat that somebody has illustrated. Each chapter heading has been illustrated inspired by the chapter that happens and there was something weirdly beautiful about it. I feel like as adults we don't often see illustrations in the kind of books that we read. And I think that's what's also made me obsessed with the art of annotations hashtag is that the tabbing and the annotation is beautiful.

I just can't commit to it. 

Jen - Sometimes as well, when I'm looking at that hashtag like it is gorgeous. It's amazing. But I do wonder if they’re kind of annotating for any purpose or if they're just annotating to make it look as pretty as possible. 

Lex - Yeah, I completely agree. But if they are annotating purely for the purpose of making it beautiful, is that just them really enjoying the text that they're reading?

Jen - I think as long as they are still reading it then I think that's fine. Mm. Yeah.

Lucy - I think when it comes, when it comes to annotating do what you like but don't then pass me a book that's covered because I won't read it.

Lex - There you go, listeners. You heard it here first. Lucy Jones does not want your second hand annotations. No, thank you. And with that, we will move forward on to our main chat of this episode where we have Char from @nobooksgiven. We have Alice from @probablybusyreading and community member Belle, joining us for a chat on the art of annotating.

Hey, there. It is Lex here with a reminder of how important it is to write, review and subscribe to this podcast on your preferred podcast player. We would also love to hear what you think and which episodes are your favourite. Hit us up on podcast@thetandemcollective.com. Now back to regularly scheduled programming.

For this episode, The Art of Annotating,I have got Char with me, who is one half of @nobooksgiven, and I've also got Alice, who is @probablybusyreading on Instagram and both very, very friendly team members of Team Tandem. So, guys, how's it going?

Char - Yeah, good. I was a bit confused then when you were like, Alice is probably busy reading.
I was like she’s right here. 

No, you're wrong.

Yeah. Good, good, good. Here.

Lex - What are you reading right now? 

Char - I am actually between titles, very boring but I am listening to..

Lex -  It’s a scary place to be.

Char - It is because I'm just sort of like I have some work to do for pitching and stuff, so I'm going to be reading those. But I'm currently listening to Why Did You Stay by Rebecca Humphries and very much enjoying it. So if any of you are on the fence about listening to it, do it, it's great. It’s also narrated by her. Yeah. Very, very good. She's Shaun Walsh's ex-girlfriend. So for Strictly fans, if you want the tea, it's hot.

Lex - Great news. Alice, what are you reading, my love? I can imagine something on the completely opposite end of the spectrum to Char’s recommendation.

Alice - Well, I'm getting very into my autumn reading, only atmospheric books allowed. I'm actually reading The Dance Tree, which Jen recommended on the first episode of the season, and she said I would love it. So I'm reading it and I am loving it actually. I don't usually like historical fiction that much, so it was kind of hard to get into, but it's really, really good.

Char - It's so funny to me that Alice is like, I'm getting into my autumn reading. Like, That's not your vibe year round.

Alice - I’m trying to get more into audiobooks as well, so I'm trying my best to listen to a book at the same time.

Lex - Well, we have an episode for audiobooks, so tune in to that episode and we will have recommendations aplenty for you. But the crux of this episode is all about one of the most controversial topics in the Bookstagram community. Do you dare put pen to paper when you are annotating your books? Give me your gut vibes. Char, you’re giving me a hard nod. 

Char - It is a big yes for me. For me, it started because I would often not understand a word or not understand how to pronounce a word. And so then I would Google it and be like, okay, well now what do I do with this information now that I know it? Because I'm obviously not going to remember the, you know, that definition.

And so for me, it started as writing the definitions of words that I didn't understand, but in the margins or in spare space. And then I just thought oh, you can just do whatever you want as long as the book belongs to you and it's not anyone else's or a library book or, you know, but if it's yours and you're not doing anything else with it, the world really is your oyster But yeah, I'm a big, big advocate. Get the pens out.

Lex - Okay. Alice, are you writing in your books?

Alice - Yeah. So when I was a teenager, I absolutely hated annotating and I would like judge people if they annotated their own books as well as like, what you doing? I was very much the book needs to be perfect. But then when I went to university, I had to annotate. And so I think that kind of got rid of that fear of just writing and also are usually write in pencil so you can rub it out anyway. But, but now I just really love annotating. I would highlight like I really don't care now, I don't care. I do anything except cracking spines. But annotating is free reign.

Char - You don’t crack the spine? 

Lex - You know, I like that. I like that those are hard rules. You're like, these are okay. This one. No.

Char - Definitely not. I have no hard rules, no. I don't know if any of you have read it, but we did a campaign for Fight Night by Miriam Toews and one of the characters in this book likes to read big books, but she was old and didn't want to carry them all with her. So she would rip them.

She would rip them into like sections and just take the section she was reading out with her. And then I'm like, okay, I don't have any rules, but that's a hard pass. That's a hard, a hard no. 

Lex - You know, I've heard a rumour that an author we know and love does that.

Alice - Wait, people actually do that?

Char -  I think, oh, I know about I think I've heard this as well, but.

Lex - I don't want to name names on the podcast because it may not be true. But if she does it, then I don't know whether I'm scared of her or I respect her more.

Alice - It’s definitely a power move. 

Lex - Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. Okay, so I'm quite glad that actually fellow podcast hosts Lucy and Jen are not here because they sit on the opposite end of the spectrum to you guys. It's pristine books or nothing for them. And I think actually it's super interesting that you both say that your annotations started when it came from that learning or knowledge space like universities, definitions, that kind of stuff.

And now I feel like I'm on your side where I'm getting into actually, I really enjoy it. It feels like one of my silly little hobbies.

Char - Yeah, I think it is. I think it's a real art. And I think that there's not one uniform way to do it either. Like every person you speak to will do it a different way. They'll have, you know. And even when I do it myself, I don't know about you, Alice, but like even in different books, I will have different things.

Like if I'm annotating for work, I'll have different colours for like quotes or like things that we can use as send outs or things that are going to be questions. They'll be different coloured tabs or sometimes it'll just be random tabs. Or like you say, it'll be dog-ears or lines underneath. And it's just I feel like it's whatever mood I'm in or whatever I have to hand dictates how I will annotate the book that I'm currently reading?

Alice - Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I’ll get really extra and match the tabs to the colour scheme of the book cover like, but sometimes, yeah, all of my annotated books, if I put them together, there's no coherent order to it. Sometimes it is just dog-ears if I don't have a pen or I'm like reading too quick and don't want to sit and underline, but then sometimes I have colour coding within the book. Soyeah, it just depends, exactly like you Char. 

Lex - I feel like I've recently graduated to a place where I am colour coding. Previous to this, in my previous eras, I would just use one colour of tab for everything and I would make notes on the tab and that would be it. But now, recently just finished a whopping 700 page book, which is not my usual book diet.

And for the first time I used coloured tabs for specific themes, and that's been a game changer. 

Char - I think using the colour coding really just allows you to really get to what it is that you're looking for quite quickly. I find that colour coding when I'm doing stuff for work is a lot more helpful. Like if I think, Oh, that was a nice thing that, you know, a nice theme that I can write question about or a nice quote that you can use. I find colour coding works more for work. 

Alice - Yeah, I tend to do it with fantasy books, maybe a bit like you Lex, where it's books that you're not really that familiar with, especially if I’m buddy reading them, then I like to have tabs so I can tab the plot, for example, because fantasy is quite confusing, so I can just go back to it and then yeah, just different things I want to talk to people about if, if I'm reading it with them.

Lex - No, I think that's very much where I am at the moment. Would either of you annotate if you didn't work in books for a living?

Char - Yeah.

Lex - You would.

Alice - Yeah. But I will say that I got more into annotating as an aesthetic, like with the colored tabs and so on because of Bookstagram. Not necessarily because of working in books, but just being in that space and seeing people on the, you know, hashtag art of annotating on Bookstagram and seeing those really beautiful books that they've kind of created by underlining and colouring and stuff.

And yeah, I just really liked it and I wanted my books to look like that. Basically.

Lex - I think that hashtag blew my mind and I think so actually Jen in the introduction raised an interesting point. People who are dedicating their time to the aesthetic of certain books where like you said, Alice, that tabs are of a certain colour spectrum which match the cover, match the pens. She was wondering, are you actually enjoying the book for what it is or is it an art project and can it be both?

Alice  - That's something that I sometimes struggle with when I'm reading. Sometimes I don't actually annotate because it can sometimes take me out of the process of reading. So when I was reading Babel, even that has so many quotes to underline that I want to remember, I didn't actually annotate it, I just did dog-ears so that I could maybe come back to underline it because I felt like it was making me think this would look good on my Instagram to an extent, and I kind of just wanted to be in the story. So it can depend. And I think a lot of people tend to annotate when they're rereading as well. So that's something that I do enjoy doing. If I'm rereading a favourite book, then I will go back and annotate it that time around. So yeah.

Lex - So actually speaking about Babel, you've just bought a really gorgeous edition of Babel and I would never be able to annotate in a book that gorgeous. Like that would be a hard no for me, but where do you guys stand? And I don't want to use the word defacing because that sounds like yeah, that's a strong word. That sounds really bad.

But are there types of books that you guys would not annotate in?

Char - I think as long as they're my books, I don't mind. I don't care. I think it's my money that I've spent, effectively no one is going to see it like outside of that. And I think I've not quite fallen into the aesthetic annotations yet. And so I don't really have that. I'm just going back to your point about sort of can it be an art form and also enjoying the book and at the minute, the way that certainly the way that I currently annotate, which is in a chaotic way, my answer is yes, because I don't I don't ever feel like that's taking away from that.

But like I said, I haven't even looked at the hashtag art of annotating. I'm scared to now that you've mentioned it. Yeah. Haven't fallen into that aesthetic of making it sort of a project on its own as a separate hobby. But yes, I mean I wouldn't mind annotating a special edition or a sprayed edge edition or, you know, the Clothbound classics.

I think that for me it's something for me to look at and for me to sit, to enjoy something that I enjoy doing. And because it's like I said, as long as it's my book, I don't mind. 

Alice - Yeah, I think the same and especially because with the special edition I know that I'll probably keep that book like with the one I just bought of Babel.

That's something that I'm going to keep because it's signed and it's beautiful. So if anything, I'd be more likely to want to annotate within that one because I'm never going to want to give it away and then be, Oh, no, no one's gonna want to read it because it's got my annotations in it.

Lex - That's really interesting. I feel like I'm stuck on this point because if I've spent money on a really beautiful edition that's crisp and clean and visually beautiful, I worry that I would start and then panic that I had ruined it. But I think that's a really interesting concept of this book is yours. You can do whatever you want with this book, dog-ears or annotating the hell out of it.

Char - I think once you start making that decision, it's very much a sliding scale of what you're comfortable with doing to your books. And I think once you get onto the slide, it's hard to not go the whole way. And that's why it's really interesting to me that Alice doesn't break spines because I think the fact that you will do absolutely everything else but not crack a spine is incredible to me, in my opinion, once you started, what's the point? And then I'm like, not in a cruel way, not in a, you know, in a in a defacive way, in a destructive way. Like, I'm not doing it. I'm like, oh, you know, like rage way. But it's just, I don't know. I think it's sort of like finishing a really great job and you look back and think, God, I really did a great job there. I sort of get to the end of the book and, you know, the spine is cracked in equal page amounts, which is something that I've recently started doing because El’s husband does it and they look so, they curve in such an interesting way. So we do it every 50 pages. It's a life changer if you do crack spines.

Lex - There are rules to the chaos, ok?

Char - It's chaos. But yeah. And then, yeah, you know, there is tabs sticking out and there’s dog-ears and there’s pens and highlighting and you look at it you think oh I read the hell out of that book. I read that and I enjoyed it. 

Alice - Yeah, it shows it's love. 

Char - So to that point then Char and this is a very specific question for people who work in publishing, I'm currently holding up a book that I have tabbed the hell out of. It's got lots of tabs in it. And these tabs were just, this is a point that I need to know. The colours are irrelevant. I just ran out of the same colours. But this is the proof. I've worked really hard on it. It's got annotations in it. Like you said, it's full of highlighter marks, pencils. That's fine because this is the proof. And then at the end of the project, the client sends you the beautiful, crisp, clean hardback edition. Now, my concern is I don't have enough space in my house for two copies of the same book, but I also don't feel like I'm ready to part with either of them.

The annotated version has got my work in it. Like you said, I've read the hell out of this book, but this is the finished product and it's sexy and foiled. What do I do here? What do you guys do here?

Alice - Just keep both. I have a book hoarding problem.

Lex - Alice, I have a storage unit bill to pay purely because of this problem.

Char - Let's just get one thing clear before we go any further. Book buying and collecting and reading books are two completely separate copies. They're not even a little bit linked. Like they're not even the same. Like two completely separate hobbies, is my personal opinion. And if you disagree, you're wrong, frankly. But I don't know. I don't often ask for the finished edition because again, I'm not super precious about having it.

And again, like you said, I don't need two copies. Like Lord knows, there are enough books in this house. So if I don't get a finished copy, I have the proof copy. I'm not super concerned about it is where I sit on the scale. But again with Alice, if you have them, keep them.

Lex - Alice, I feel like you have multiple copies of the same book in your life.

Alice - I don't actually. The only one is Babel because I like the special edition and I'm also going to get the special edition of If We Were Villains thats coming out because it's my favourite book, but otherwise I'm not like ten copies of the same book kind of person. But I would keep the annotated version. Personally, I would put the sentimentality of that over the finished copy. 

Char - Yeah, same. 

Lex - Okay. Interesting. Some controversial points. Some points I can get on board with. Char, I feel like once you have stepped into the art of annotating hashtag, Alice, let me know what you think but I would just say be prepared to spend some money, like on coloured tabs, on highlighters.

Alice - I bought a thousand times. I didn't go and buy that many deliberately, but it came in a set of a thousand immediately after looking at that hashtag so yeah, be prepared.

Char - The most revolutionary thing that I have found and they’re not cheap, is the transparent post-it notes. Now, if you don't go in for pen to paper, but you want to, the transparent post-it notes are for you. They are matte and they’re gorgeous. You can just just peel, they peel off so nicely, you pop them onto your page and you can see what's underneath. And they're so aesthetic, so, so lovely. And I think that that's really changed the annotation game for me. I, like I said, I don't really care about having pen on paper, but I think they look great.

Lex - So Char, you are the one who turned me on to transparent post-its in the first place, like nobody else can claim that credit and now I feel like I should have shares in whoever makes them, because I think for me they are the perfect bridge between functional, I can do my work in a really helpful way with them, but also I get to lean into my art of annotating fantasy, which definitely kind of borders the like studygram space, which I think is a space that I wish I was in. I’m just not cool enough. 

Char - If I was going to go back to university now, I would definitely like care about. I sort of leaned into it a little bit like I was always like colour pens, headings and cutesy, but never, never like hashtag studygram but I think I feel like if I went back to an education in any form now I would get into it.

Lex - Alice, I feel that you are or were very much in the kind of like studygram aesthetic space.

Alice - I wasn't actually, as in I didn't have an account or anything. But my aesthetic… I had a time tracker that was colour coded and it was my pride and joy.

Lex - So hipster of you, you weren't even on you weren't even on Instagram, you weren't even publishing this work, but you were like, no, sorry, I was actually doing it just before it was cool.

Alice - Yeah, exactly.

Lex - Okay, great. Well, listen, guys, thank you so much for coming to hang out and chat with me today. I am so glad that I've now got both of you on one end of the spectrum and I've got Lucy and Jen on the other. So when I need to talk to safe spaces about keeping my clean books clean, and as Char said, reading my books with the chaos, I feel like I've got the right people to come to with it.

So on that note, thank you so much for joining us today. And listeners, stay tuned because we will have a little bit more insight on the art of annotating from our Tandem Collective community members.

Belle - Hi, guys. Thank you for letting me be part of your podcast. I'm just going to answer the questions that Lex from the team has kindly sent to me. What does annotation mean to you? Annotation honestly means a lot to me. I love being able to go back and see my thoughts. It also reminds me of where I was in that part of my life.

For instance, I look at Strange, The Dreamer, one of my most heavily annotated books. And I know, oh my God, I read that at this time in my life because I have such memories attached to it. And the things that I wrote in the book were very much in tune to what I was doing and feeling in that current part of my life.

It also just helps me understand the character and the world if I get really stuck, like it's a very high fantasy book. Like when I was reading Jade City, I'll literally write in the book what I'm not understanding and then go back and be like, Oh, I get it now. It’s just an amazing way for you to get more in tune with the book, especially trying to understand what the author's trying to get across as well.

It's important. It's different for a lot of people, but that is what annotation means to me. I love it. I don't think I'll ever stop annotating any kind of book. 

How do you embrace annotating? I've never had an issue with annotating my books. I've always kind of done it ever since I was in year ten, year 11, I was what, 14, 15?

I used to scribble all of my books in school and I did the same thing at home. It was never an issue for me. I hope, I wish more people would embrace annotating. I feel like there was a bit of a stigma.

Are there any books that you won't annotate? Now, I definitely do not annotate any special editions and I love my special editions, whether it's Waterstones.

I will never touch those books. I will never go and hit them with any kind of tabs, any kind of pen. Unfortunately, what I'm reading at the moment is Babel by R.F Kuang and I literally only have the Waterstones edition, so I had to go buy transparent, sticky notes that I could write in the book without actually writing in the book because it just feels illegal, it feels wrong to actually read special editions like you're going to ruin them or you could do something to them.

So I just absolutely won't touch those. But any other kind of hardback, paperback, whatever genre, whatever age, like I will write in those or I will tab them. 

How would you convince a naysayer into adaptations? Now, I have actually done this a lot to a lot of people, especially on my Bookstagram. Whenever I show that I'm like, Oh, I'm reading this and I'm annotating, and they see all my scribbly handwriting and my highlight and my neon yellow highlighter.

I love using that. I always get so many messages like, Oh, I've always wanted to annotate my books, I just get so scared and I'm like, I totally get that. But also they are your books. You are not going to harm anyone by writing in your books, especially if you know that it's only going to benefit you.

So honestly, there's nothing better than a well-loved book, I say. And especially when you can look at a book and be like, Oh my God, this person loved this book. Like, Look, all these thoughts, look at all these tabs, look at all these writings and things that they've put in the book. You can just tell like that is a well-loved book.

And I feel like part of that is because of the annotations. Like if you were to look at My Strange, The Dreamer, book and my Jade City books, you would just be able to tell that she loves these books, which I do. But yeah, I hope you guys like listening to what I had to say again. Thank you so much for letting me be a part of this and I hope this isn’t cringe at all. 

Thank you.

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Lex - Thank you so much for joining us today. Please do take a minute to rate review and subscribe and we'll see you next week.

Jaide - As always, we're open to your feedback, so please do hit us up @tandemcollectiveuk on Instagram or using the hashtag #tandemcollectivetalks. If there’s anyone content creator wise or industry superstars or your favourite author that you think we should feature in the podcast then let us know. 

Bye!

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