Tandem Talks: Debut Authors
Jen - Hello and welcome to the Tandem Collective Talks podcast.
Lex - Tandem Collective celebrates books, film, TV, podcasts and more with our global community.
Lucy - We’re Jen, Jaide, Lucy and Lex, members and friends of Team Tandem. You might already know us from Instagram or TikTok, but if not, it's great to meet you and welcome.
Jen - We're here to chat to you about what's new in the world of books, publishing and film, interview some of your favorite authors and hear your thoughts on what you're reading and watching at the moment.
Jaide - You can find us at @tandemcollectiveuk on Instagram and also @tandemcollectiveglobal
Lucy - Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Tandem Collective Talks podcast. Today we're going to be chatting about standout debut novels and releases from some debut authors that we, as your hosts, and other community members have absolutely loved; releases that make us want to be the first in the know when that newly discovered author releases their subsequent books. So firstly, a bit of a chat about debuts, because I think that they hold so much power; because unless it's a relatively high profile person already or celebrity that’s releasing a book, this book is your first impression of that author - it kind of serves as your first date with that writer.
So, Lex and Jen, what are some debut releases that you've both read that have just made you think, “Wow, I want a second date with that writer? I have to read more from them”.
Jen - I love how you've described it, Luce. I have to say, I don't really usually realize if I'm reading something that is a debut because I just kind of pick up books based on if they look interesting to me and then say, ‘Oh, I loved that, I'm going to Google it and see what else they've done’ and then find out they actually haven't done anything. So I've got three and none of them are horror actually. Well… one of them is, a little bit.
Lex - Sorry. No, stop, stop. Who are you?
Luce - What have you done with Jen?
Jen - I know. It's weird, isn't it? Terrifying. Okay, so the first one that I've gone with is Naoise Dolan's Exciting Times. Have either of you read Exciting Times? No. So, it's really good. It's about a queer woman living abroad, teaching English as a foreign language. I was initially put off because a lot of people were saying ‘Oh, she's the next Sally Rooney’ and I just don't care about that. That sounds awful. But I decided to read it anyway and it's actually fantastic. But what I love is that the main character is really unlikable. Like you are reading what she's doing and you are thinking, ‘Oh, why did you do that? You are the worst.’ And that really hooked me. And I think we don't see enough unlikable characters. I just loved that Naoise Dolan has created these characters that are so dry and amusing, and I really identified with the really unlikable main character. I really saw myself in her and I loved that. Yeah. So that's one I'd recommend. And then a newer one, one that came out earlier this year is Wahala by Nikki May. Have either of you read that one?
Lucy - I haven't read it, but I think we did a Readalong for it perhaps?
Lex - Yeah. And I've seen that cover everywhere.
Jen - And it's so good. Again, it's about female friendship, and how we interact with each other, but it's a little bit sharp. There's twists in there, there's a bit of a betrayal. It's just really interesting. And it's a really strong novel that you read and you absolutely wouldn't know that it was her debut because her voice is so, so clear and so defined already.
And then my third one is Boy Parts by Eliza Clarke. I don't know if either of you will have read this. It was really big on Bookstagram in about 2020. And I don’t know why I said none of them are horror, because this one is incredibly dark and she does kill people, but it doesn't feel like a horror. It's brilliant. There’s a lot in it about sexuality and feminism and it's really, really funny. But at the same time it has this horrendously unlikable, main character who is killing people. So that's my three and they’re actually all really different.
Lucy - I was going to say it's a good mix.
Jen - I'm really excited to see what all of them do next because they all are really clear individual voices bringing something new that we don't already have in the book scene. So I'm excited to hear more from their voices.
Lucy - I do know exactly what you mean, Jen, about just picking up books rather than knowing the author name or much about the author in advance. I love it when you read a debut and it just completely takes you by surprise. And then this name is etched in your head and you think ‘Oh, I definitely want to read more from them’.
Lex - This is why I think comp titles are really important for debuts. The one that sticks in my mind is The Other Black Girl by Zakiya Dalila Harris, and the title for that was The Devil Wears Prada meets Get Out, which are two completely contradicting films that make no sense together but is the perfect comp title for The Other Black Girl. And I think that's how I tend to navigate debuts.
Lucy - Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a very good point. Which of the debuts have you read Lex that have blown you away?
Lex - So first up is The First Day of Spring by Nancy Tucker. Have either of you read this one?
Jen - Nope.
Lex - Nope. So, Nancy, this is kind of a cheat debut because she's written a memoir previously, but she's never written fiction. This was her debut fiction. And it is the perfect book if you love true crime documentaries or podcasts. It is essentially about a little girl in a town up North somewhere and she kills another little girl in their town. And it's about what happens when that girl grows up. It’s all about the controversy around witness protection and about second chances. And is it right? Is it wrong? How do you deal with that? What happens next? And Nancy Tucker, the author, is so lovely. So, yeah, that would definitely be a recommendation.
Another one would be My Sister, The Serial Killer, by Oyinkan Braithwaite, a story about two sisters set in Nigeria and one sister, as you can tell by the title, consistently kills her boyfriends, and the other sister has to come along and clean up after her. And it's all about what happens when the sister, who is the cleaner upper, forms a relationship with the boyfriend that the sister is eventually going to kill. So that was really great, really interesting to read something completely out of my… I was going to say out of my wheelhouse. It's definitely a crime and thriller, but it's really interesting to read it from a diverse culture and that was really kind of integral to the story as well, I think
I recently read The Herd by Emily Edwards, which was…
Lucy - Is that the anti vax one?
Lex - Yeah. So this one came about when the author was pregnant herself and she was having a conversation with her seemingly anti-vax doula and then having to go through pregnancy and labour with this doula who was anti-vax. And that kind of reckoning, like recognition of going, “Oh, other people think differently. How do I feel about that? What happens?” And then this book was born. So for those who don't know, the book is about two best friends who are raising their children nearby. They’re neighbors, their lives are so intertwined, and for one reason or another, one child can't be vaccinated, for medical reasons, and the other child, the parents choose not to vaccinate her. And then I'm sure you can guess what happens, but it's all about the fallout and what's right and wrong. And what I loved about it is that I sit quite firmly within the pro-vax space, and I never thought that I would find myself understanding the other person's point of view. But in this book you did, and I think the comp title for that that was on the front cover that made me pick it up is it says something like for readers of Jodi Picoult.
So I would definitely recommend that to the both of you, although now I'm now saying that I'm aware that you both have children, and I think somebody who has children would read this book differently to me. Because I don't have children, that dependent feeling. So maybe that would be a different read for you guys. I'd be interested to hear it.
And my final recommendation is one that we did for a Tandem Readalong earlier on this year. It’s called The Jigsaw Man by Nadine Matheson. I have already got the second book in this series lined up on my Libby app, ready to go in audiobook. And it's essentially a really gritty, gruesome police procedural where different body parts are found strewn around London and it's down to this female black detective to put them all together and to find the criminal. So, written by a black author, a black woman in a police procedural. It's just not something in crime thrillers that you see so often. So I'm making quite a concerted effort to read beyond the crime fiction about white women by white women. So that would 100% be a recommendation for me as well. It was a brilliant book.
Lucy - I felt like when Nadine Matheson was writing that it's like “know your audience; Lex Brookman - body parts”.
Lex - Yeah, we got to chat to her about it because we did it for the Readalong, so we were talking about the inspiration behind it. And she was saying that she read a news story about somebody finding a foot in a bag just around London somewhere. And there was a really dark, horrific, horrific part of me that was like, I'd like to find a body part in a bag. Like, I would like to be in a story like that. That would be awful. But I think about it all the time and then I'm like, no, that's a ridiculous thing.
Jen - Just coming back to your recommendation. So I also read My Sister, the Serial Killer, when that came out and I love it. It's again, I think it's got its own really kind of original voice. It doesn't feel like you're reading anybody else's writing and it's so new and I love the concept of it. And yeah, definitely agree with that recommendation.
Lucy - Nice. It's a good variety. There are a couple for me that I have read fairly recently. So the first one is Shuggie Bain by Douglas Stewart which was a debut and obviously won The Man Booker Prize in 2020. Interesting fact as well, I learned that that manuscript was rejected by something like 30 publishers before there was bite for it. And I just thought it's one of the most moving books I've ever read. It’s incredible.
Lex - That’s amazing, I didn't know it was rejected so much.
Luce - It’s really, really sad. For those of you who haven't read it, it's about a little boy called Hugh or nicknamed Shuggie, growing up in Glasgow in the 1980s. And it's about his life with his siblings and his mother, who is battling alcoholism. Really, really moving. It's just such a compelling read. And I think it's actually based on his own life experience. He sadly lost his own mum when he was about 16. And I think it was that loss that prompted him to write the book. It was one of those books that stuck with me for such a long time after I'd finished it and anybody else on Bookstagram who I've spoken to who's read it has said the same that they… just yeah, such a, such a powerful moving book. And I've remembered him and, you know, kind of followed him since then. And Young Mungo, which is his second book, came out earlier this year. I still haven't read that yet, but that's next book but three on my TBR. So I'm hoping I will get round to it fairly soon.
And then the second one, which we did do another Tandem Readalong for back in April this year, was Memphis by Tara M Stringfellow. It’s about three women from the same family. It's kind of a cross generational novel, split between different time periods when each of them was growing up, and then back to the present day. Obviously, they all live in the town of Memphis in America, but what you're saying about the voice Jen, it just shines through. I love anything that's character-led and the relationships between these women were so strong. They're all very, very different. On the Readalong as well some of the online reviews we had from people at the end, people were just saying, “I cannot believe this is a debut” because it was just such evocative, stunning writing. So that would be one I would definitely recommend.
Jen - Some great recommendations from all of us there. We're now going to talk to Jody Rhiann Matthews, who is part of our Bookstagram community, a long time bookstagrammer and has recently written her debut novel, which is due to be published in 2024. So she's talking to us about the process of writing a debut, getting published and bookstagramming at the same time.
Lucy - Hi everyone. It's Lucy here. I hope you're enjoying the podcast so far. If you'd like to support us further, it's super important to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast on your preferred player. We'd love to hear what you think on which episodes are your favorite. So hit us up at podcast@thetandecollective.com to chat. Now back to the episode.
Jen - Hello everyone. It's me, Jen, and I'm here with my friend Jodie Matthews who if you’re a bookstagrammer you will know on the bookstagram community as well. Who are you now Jodie?
Jodie - It’s @jodierhiannmatthews now, but it used to be @jodiereadsbooks.
Jen - Yes, that’s it, I'm always saying to everybody, ‘Oh, Jodie just got published. Jodie Rhiann Matthews and she was @jodiereadsbooks.’ Brilliant. So in this episode we are chatting about releasing your debut novel, and I thought it would be amazing to have a member of our community join us and tell us a little bit about how it's been, going from bookstagrammer to published author Jodie. Was that always your hope when you joined Bookstagram?
Jodie - I think there was a little bit of that, yeah. So I started my bookstagram at the end of 2019, that was mainly out of boredom, more than anything else. I used to read loads, but I'd had a bit of a dry spell, I guess, and then I picked up some books and I started reading some more, and that was when I found Bookstagram. So I decided to make an account. And quite quickly after I made the account, I realized how much of a good way it was to meet publishers and other authors and things like that. So I started writing the book at the very beginning of 2020, only a couple of months after I made my Bookstagram account. It went from there, really. I think a lot of the opportunities that I had came because of bookstagram and social media.
Jen - Because am I right in thinking you'd written before, little bits like poetry and that kind of thing. And this was your first novel?
Jodie - Yes, yes. So I studied creative writing at uni and I'd written, but it was mainly poetry. I did a little bit of script writing and then quite a lot of personal essays and articles and stuff like that. But this was my first attempt at an actual novel.
Jen - And now how does it feel coming back to the bookstagram community, being a bookstagrammer but knowing that we're all going to be devouring and posting about your book - are there any nerves there?
Jodie - Oh, yeah, it's terrifying. It's been really strange because I used to post an awful lot, so I started posting about writing the book immediately. So from the very first draft it was all on there and everybody was following along and it was really exciting. And then what's been strange is recently, so probably from about the beginning of 2021, from the latter 2020, I haven't been able to post as much because a lot of the stuff that's been happening, it's been stuff that I needed to keep quiet, like with the publishing deal and also just things I didn't want to jinx.
I was nervous, especially when I started querying agents. I was nervous that if I was posting about it that something would go wrong. So it's been a massive relief really to kind of come back to my account now that everything's public and to be able to start posting again. And I am nervous about people reading it, especially people that I followed and have followed me over the past three years.
But I'm also really excited and obviously there's a few fellow bookstagrammers who've already read it or read earlier versions like you have, so that's exciting. I'm really looking forward to some of my early readers to read it as it is now as well.
Jen - Yeah, I'm really looking forward to having another read of it and seeing how it's changed and grown because it was brilliant when I read it. So I'm really looking forward to it. So when you were talking to agents and publishers, how much did you get the feeling that they had looked at your Bookstagram, or do you think that felt slightly irrelevant to them?
Jodie - Oh, no, they definitely had. I think it's one of the most helpful things that I've done with regards to getting an agent and getting a publisher. So I included my bookstagram account in my bio when I was sending out to agents and when I signed with Liv from Madeleine Milburn, who is my agent now, one of the first things that she said to me was that everybody in the agency seemed to know who I was because of my account. She'd say, like, ‘Oh, I want to sign Jodie Matthew, she's got this account.’ And then they were like, ‘Oh, we know @Jodiereadsbooks.’ So that was really exciting. And then when I went to London to meet Fourth Estate just before I signed the publishing deal with them as well, they all knew who I was, and two people from the publicity and marketing department came in to meet me because I've worked with them before.
So Liv Marsden was there and it was just really exciting. It kind of made it feel a lot more accessible, I suppose, because publishing and literary agents and stuff can feel quite scary from the outside. But it was so nice to see these names that I recognized and be like, “Oh, well, I already follow that editor on Instagram and I've spoken to this publicist before because I worked with them” and it just it felt like an easier in.
Jen - Yeah it's like you already had a little bit of presence there and I think that's really important, because I think so often people who are on bookstagram and reviewing books kind of think - because so many of us do it as a hobby - well, how relevant is this? How much is this going to help me? So knowing that it is something that's been helpful in your journey, I think is going to be really encouraging for a lot of people who are writing now and aren't sure how to find their way with it.
Jodie - When me and Liv started to send the book out to publishers, one of the big angles that they were taking was the fact that I was a bookstagrammer, because to them that means I already have a presence. I already know how to market myself and that really helps. Also, all of the opportunities that I had in the run up to getting the book published came about through Instagram. So my, my writing mentor is Tom de Freston, who is the author of Wreck and also an artist, and he's also married to Kiran Millwood Hargrave.
Jen - And he’s on the front of The Bookseller today!
Jodie - Yes, he is. Yeah. So exciting. So I followed Kiran on Instagram and she during lockdown posted about or shared a story about how Tom was looking for mentors. So I applied for that one. Then won the one year membership to the London Library that Jessie Burton was offering as part of her 38 birthday books competition as well. And that, again, I found through Bookstagram. Pretty much everything that happened in the run up was through having a bookstagram account. And if I hadn't have made that, then I wouldn't have known about any of these things before that. So it was really good to have this ready- made community.
Jen - That's really good. And do you find Jodie - because this is something that I have found as my bookstagram has kind of grown and as I've done more with books professionally - that you feel slightly more that you need to censor yourself? So obviously we can both be quite sweary women. We're quite open women. We talk openly about sexuality on Instagram. Have you found the need to kind of rein it in a little bit more as you've known that professional people are looking at your account?
Jodie - I don't think I've had to rein my personality in so much. I think the only time when that happens is when I’m aware that my mum is looking at my Instagram account more so than anything else. One thing I have found, especially when I was about to go out on submission or after I’d signed with Liv, it's that I then became aware that I wanted to make sure that the reviews I was posting about books were positive ones. And that's not to say that I've ever put up a review of a book that I haven't liked and I've posted positively, but I was only putting up reviews of books that I liked, so I wasn't going to start posting about books that I didn't enjoy because it just felt risky going into the submission process, knowing that they would be looking at my account.
The worst thing I could have done was send a submission to a publisher, have them look at my bookstagram account and see that I've just trashed the last three or four books that they posted about. So there was definitely a little bit of censorship there, whereas now I know that I'm free now, but I've never really been one to post about books that I don't like anyway, and mainly because I don't personally have the energy to take a nice picture of a book that I don't like.
I tend to just read them and if I don't like them then they are gone. But yeah, as far as swearing and talking about sexuality and things like that, I think I've stayed the same and I think with the subject matter of the book as well, those things all work. So I think it's good to be quite openly queer and to still be posting about these things as well because it shows anybody who is looking at the book or looking at me that I am writing from a place of experience rather than from the outside, which I think is is a good thing these days as well.
Jen - Absolutely. And I think people want to know who they’re kind of connecting with, don’t they? They want to see what your personality is and the things that are important to you. And I think that definitely comes across in your bookstagram. I think it's good to not censor that. But I do also love that your mum is more scary than a publisher, essentially.
Jodie - I think so. I think so. I don’t know if scary is the right word. But just. Yeah. I wouldn't want her to be too disappointed. She already hates the tattoos… she doesn't like tattoos in general, but she'll concede that some of mine are okay.
Jen - Yes. Same with my mum, she would say that tattoos are blobs and mine are just like slightly bigger blobs. So something that Jodie and I have in common is that we are both heavily tattooed and we're both Cornish girls. Where were you born Jodie? Born in Cornwall, yes?
Jodie - So I was born in St Austell actually, St Austell Hospital. But I grew up in Blisland, which is North Cornwall, so just on the edge of Bodmin Moor, as well.
Jen - And that's where your book is set isn’t it?
Jodie - That is where my book is set, yeah.
Jen - Yeah. So I was born in Truro. The Royal Cornwall. And then grew up in Penzance. So just along from Marazion, beautiful. Well thank you so much for joining me Jodie. Unless you've got anything else to say on the whole bookstagram to author but still bookstagrammer transition, I think that's been a fascinating insight.
Jodie - Yeah, that's been lovely. Thank you. I think the main thing that I'll say is that if you are a writer in any form, that keeping up a Bookstagram account is just a really good way to do it as well. There's so many people will get a publishing deal or have a book that's about to come out and they will have completely avoided social media. So then they have to build everything from the ground up there. Whereas like I said earlier, it's so helpful to have that community as well. And hopefully the people that I know will enjoy it. Hopefully, hopefully Bookstagram will like it. Fingers crossed. So my book is called Meet Me at the Surface and it will be published in spring 2024 from Fourth Estate.
Jen - Fantastic. Thank you so much, Jodie.
Jodie -Thank you.
Lucy - So we're now going to hear some recommendations of debuts from other Team Tandem community members, one from Jenny, who can be found on Instagram @jennyreads is The Last Bear by Hannah Gold, which is a middle grade title about a polar bear. But what Jenny particularly loved about it was that the amount of research and factual information that the author had done, combined with the kind of fantastical elements and the storytelling; the combination of those two elements just made it a really believable, beautiful story. So that's one she's put forward.
Lex - One of our wonderful project managers, El, who can be found at @nobooksgiven on Instagram, recommends The Rabbit Hutch by Tess Gunty, saying it was quite an abstract narrative in places infused lots of different characters' stories into one plot. I felt like I was reading a seasoned writer and will be interested to see what she does next. Always good when a debut turns into an autobuy author.
Jen - And Zuzanna, who is @themanuscriptmechanic recommends The Making of Her by Bernadette Jiwa. She says she loved her prose, her quiet exploration of what family means. It struck a chord. So much pain and sadness shown through small, ordinary things like a cracked sponge for a birthday cake. I feel like either you Luce or possibly Lex have recommended Bernadette Jiwa. Have either of you read Bernadette Jiwa?
Lucy - Yes. So I've read The Making of Her. I think it was in the podcast episode where we talk about 2022 releases. But yeah the point about the prose is it is so accurate. It is just beautifully done and very eloquent.
Lex - I have a question.
Lucy - Yes.
Lex - If you were going to write a book, what would your two comparison authors be? Like if two authors were going to come together to write a book. What would that look like for you? Who would your author comp title be?
Lucy - If I'm going to write a book? Mm hmm. Good question.
Lex - Jen. Same for you.
Jen - I'm trying to think like it would probably be…
Lex - Mary Shelley meets..
Jen - Yes. Someone really smutty. Who can we think of like… I don’t want it to be E.L. James, so don’t say E.L James, but somebody like that…
Lex - Who wrote Rough?
Jen - Yeah, but that’s non fic though.
Lex - That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a brilliant book.
Jen - Well, we didn't say if I'm writing my autobiography here Lex.
Lex - Oh right, okay.
Lucy - I'm going to say…. why is it so difficult?
Lex - I'm sorry, I didn't give you any prep time either.
Lucy - I mean, she got slated earlier in the episode. Sally Rooney meets Karen Swan.
Lex - Oh, my God.
Jen - I think mine Lex, actually thinking about this further, might be Mary Shelley meets Daisy Buchanan.
Lex - Yeah, that makes sense for you. I think.
Lucy - In fact, can I change mine? Yeah. I'm going to say Karen Swan meets Taylor Jenkins Reid.
Jen - Yes, that's so good for you Luce. Lex, who’s yours?
Lex - You know, I don’t know. My gut says is, you know, one of them is Claire Mackintosh and the other one is like… no, I feel like I would write something darker than that.
Jen - Mm hmm. You would. What about a bit of Cat Ward for you?
Lex - Maybe Cat Ward is more horror than I am. You know.
Jen - Tana French.
Lex - You know what? I haven't read any Tana French.
Lucy - Lucy Foley.
Jen - Oh, yeah. Oh, Lucy Foley could be great for Lex.
Lex - Is Lucy Foley gritty enough, though?
Lucy - Are there enough bodies in it, basically?
Lex - But also are there enough graphically described dead bodies. I feel like that's where that's where the jam is at the moment. Yeah, maybe, you know, one of those crime fiction queens, somewhere between one of those two would be great.
Jen - Why don't you go for Lucy Foley for the modern, the really easily readable, the crime, and then mix in some Stephen King for the grotesque. So you got Lucy Foley and Stephen King.
Lucy - And you're maybe somewhere in the middle.
Lex - If anybody ever described me as that, I would worship the ground that they walk on. That would be great.
Lucy - We have mentioned this already, but please do check any of the titles referenced in this episode for their content warnings before you start reading them. Please do take a minute to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform as it really does make such a difference in discoverability and rankings. If you've got a recommendation for an episode or book, you think one of us should read immediately let us know at podcast@thetandemcollective.com.
For more wonderful recommendations from all of your team members. As always, we want to hear from you. If you have got any debuts that have just blown you away that you would recommend we read, do let us know at podcast@thetandemcollective.com. Take care everybody.
Jaide - As always we're open to your feedback, so please do hit us up at @tandemcollectiveuk on Instagram or using the hashtag #tandemcollectivetalks. If there's anyone content creator wise, industry superstars or your favourite author that you think we should feature in a podcast, then let us know. We’ll see you later.
