Tandem Talks: Reading Outside Of Your Comfort Zone

Jen: Hello, and welcome to the Tandem Collective Talks podcast.

Lex: Tandem Collective celebrates books, film, TV, podcasts and more with our global community,

Lucy: We’re Jen, Jaide, Lucy and Lex - members and friends of Team Tandem. You might already know us from Instagram or TikTok, but if not - it’s great to meet you and welcome!

Jen: We’re here to chat to you about what’s new in the world of books, publishing and film, interview some of your favourite authors and hear your thoughts on what you’re reading and watching at the moment.

Jaide: You can find us at @TandemCollectiveUK on Instagram and also@TandemCollectiveGlobal.

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Jen: Hello, welcome to the Tandem Talks Podcast. You're here with me, Jen, Lex and Luce. And today we're going to be talking about reading outside your genre.

So Luce, what do you normally read and not read?

Lucy: So my go to genre is normally either historical fiction or something that's quite literary. I love those two genres,  particularly with historical fiction, something that makes me go down a bit of a Google rabbit hole after I finish and learn a lot about a particular period in time. Something that I don't really read is psychological thriller or anything in the kind of crime/horror field. Yeah not really something that I have read very much of, but I think quite soon to change.

Lex: I don't know how you might not know this, but I pretty much predominantly solely read within the crime thriller, psychological thriller genre. It's kind of a running joke among the Tandem team that I say if there's a dead body in the book, I will read it, which I mean, take from that what you will. But I like the pace of a thriller, I like the drama of the thriller, I like that panic on the edge of your seat. And then in juxtaposition, the books that I don't tend to read that much are, sorry Luce, historical fiction, anything that really tests my brain? Like anything that I have to really try and imagine, which I know sounds so lazy, but domestic noir comes very easily to my imagination. You know, small town murder, I've got it in my brain. And then Jen, as you mentioned, romance. I'm not a big romance reader at all, I used to be when I was younger. Like I really liked Sophie Kinsella and Adventures of the Shopaholic or whatever that series is called. But now in my kind of reading prime, not a romantic kind of rom com fan. Not really. What about you, Jen? 

Jen: I read fairly similarly to you Lex, but possibly slightly more extreme. So my go-tos are crime, but usually horror. So I do like crime, but it has to be quite, quite scary. And feminist nonfiction, anything about feminism, women in the justice system, that kind of thing. I don't really like romance. I mean, I don't mind romance, but not when the romance is the whole story. I just want to hear more about what's going on in people's lives. And again, I don't really tend to read historical fiction. 

So what we thought we would do is challenge each other because we all read differently. We're challenging each other to read something outside of our genre. So Lex, do you want to talk about who you have recommended to and what you've recommended? 

Lex: Yes. So I don't feel like it would be a Tandem Collective Talks podcast, if I didn't at some point recommend a Claire Mackintosh title. So when it came to recommending something for Lucy, who hasn't read a lot of psychological thrillers, I was actually really torn about wanting to recommend this because I know that I’ve recommended it to everybody before, so it felt like a kind of given recommendation.

But then I was chatting to Jen as a little outside of the podcast sidebar, like, what am I going to recommend for Lucy? And then I thought about it and I feel like this is the perfect representation of a psychological thriller. There are twists throughout the whole book, so much so that Jen read it and then had to text me halfway through and be like, ‘Oh my God, I'm sold’ and I love that feeling. I love that feeling for myself, but also for other people. So I feel like this is the perfect book to ease Lucy into the waters of psychological thrillers. And obviously friend of the podcast, Claire Mackintosh. You've got a great backlist to go ahead and explore when you're ready. So that's my recommendation for you. 

Luce, was it a surprise at all?

Lucy: No. To be honest, no! Although I don't really read psychological thrillers, I do love a good plot twist. And I'm sure that If I Let You Go is the book that you referenced in the last season of the podcast when we interviewed Clare with you saying it's the book with the best plot twist you've ever read, is that right? So as soon as it landed with me, I immediately was excited and then haven't wanted to read too much about it because of fear of spoilers. But you know, words to describe it are addictive, compelling, a heart hammering, plot twist. So yeah, I'm very much looking forward to reading it.

Lex: I so hope you enjoy it, and I think the thing that really stood out for me for this particular book is that quite a lot of crime thrillers, they might save up all of their punchy twists until the very end. Whereas, this one is literally kind of it feels like set up, twist, set up, twist, set up, twist the whole way through, so you don't really know what's happening. And I just love that feeling.

Lucy: Yeah, okay. So I can never relax while I'm reading it.

Lex: Absolutely not. Edge of your seat reading, it's going to be a ride!

Jen, who recommended, Oh, it was me, no It was Lucy. Lucy recommended for you. 

Lucy: Yeah. So I, as I said, enjoy a good bit of historical fiction. And I have recommended Beasts of a Little Land by Juhea Kim for Jen to read, which is all about the lives of three different women living through the Korean War, their own experiences, how they are interconnected with each other. And I just thought it was a really beautifully written book. Like I say, I always love it when a book makes me kind of learn something new or go and Google a particular period of time. I really didn't feel I knew much about the Korean War at all before reading the book, but I really, really enjoyed it. We actually ran the Tandem readalong for it fairly recently.

So yeah. Jen, I hope you enjoy it. I know it's definitely out of your comfort zone. What were your first thoughts on it since it's arrived?

Jen: Beautiful book!  I'm looking forward to it,  more from what you've just said there than what I found out by Googling. I think partly because obviously, I'm really interested in reading kind of nonfiction about women. So the fact it centres around the lives of these women and the fact that you said you learned a lot about the Korean War again, I didn't know a lot about the Korean War. So I'm really excited to get to know more. 

Lucy: Yeah. I think hopefully you’ll enjoy it. And it's a debut as well, and I just think it's incredible for a debut novel. I would like to read more by the author after reading it, which I think is always, always a good sign. And the characters as well. I mean, character development is something that I always look for in a book and, you know, is kind of what makes a book stand out for me. And I think this is a book that does that really well.

Jen: I'm really looking forward to reading it and seeing how I get on with it.

And then I recommended for Lex. As I said, Lex and I read quite similarly, but Lex, is more kind of crime procedural, ‘this happened because of this’ kind of reason. So I have recommended Starve Acre to Lex, which is by Andrew Michael Hurley. It's kind of folk horror, so it's lots of creepy stuff happens and is there really a reason for it? Not really. It's just weird and scary. So hopefully I'm going to push Lex out of her comfort zone a bit there with her not actually knowing why anything's happened, if it's real, if it's supernatural, what's happening there? What are you thinking about it Lex?

Lex: I am stoked, I'm super stoked. I feel like -  so I haven't done any googling because I don't want to be swayed by anything but the first line of the blurb on the back is - ‘The worst possible thing has happened. Richard and Juliet Willoughby's son Ewan has died suddenly at the age of five.’ And if I refer you to my previous comment about a requirement for a dead body, I'm sold. The other thing that has me really going about this book is I don't know whether it's because I've just bought this paperback, but the front cover is textured slightly on this skeleton, it’s such a good front cover.I love it. And this is actually another tandem Readalong book. So I have been that person and gone through and put in the readalong cards so that I can enjoy those extra prompts because I'm that kind of nerdy person. But printing them off, I was like ‘Don't look at them, don't look at them, just put them in the right pages, don't look at them.’ 

Jen: I love that.

Lex:  Oh yeah. Like, I mean. Hello, have we met? But I'm also so scared of being spoiled, so I just didn't want to look at anything. I think the only thing that makes me nervous is that kind of supernatural element to it. Normally when my partner and I are choosing to watch a film or TV series or anything like my one veto is if its got aliens in it I'm not watching it. Because I hate that. And this is definitely not like an all films or TV thing, but I find sometimes with sci fi, people tend to go, and why? Oh, aliens. And why? Oh magic. I don't need to explain my plot holes because aliens, obviously that is not the case with this book. So I mean, 

Jen: I know what you mean. I'm not massively into aliens either, but this one - so when I read it and I posted about it on Instagram and I spoke to quite a few other horror readers about it, and especially the last few pages, I was so unsettled and speaking to other people, they got exactly the same feeling and I think that's what you're going to love. The last few pages where you say ‘Oh my gosh, what's going on? I don't know if I like it’. I think you're going to be so creeped out and enjoy it.

Lex: Perfect. Well that's my aim. That's what I'm the most excited for, I think. And I have just finished my last book last night, so today I'm diving in. Are you guys about to dive into your books this week as well?

Lucy: Yeah. 

Lex: Well, okay. In that case, I want updates in the WhatsApp group, how's it going. Luce, when those twists come please send us your reactions.

Lucy:  Definitely will update!

Jen: Perfect.

Lex:  I can't wait. 

Jen: What we're going to do now everyone, is we're going to go away and do the reading, and then we're going to come back and discuss how we got on with our books and whether it has changed our opinion on reading across different genres.

Lex: Awesome. See you in a week, guys.

Lucy: So Jen, you are not normally a reader of historical fiction and I recommended Beasts of a Little Land by Juhea Kim for you to read. How did you get on with it?

Jen: I got on well with it, so I would definitely categorise it as historical literary, I think. So I'm going to read the blurb and then just go in to chat a little about it. ‘In 1917, deep in the snowy mountains of occupied Korea, an impoverished local hunter on the brink of starvation saves a young Japanese officer from an attacking Tiger. In an instant, their fates are connected, and from this encounter unfolds a saga that spans half a century.In the aftermath, a young girl named Jade is sold by her family to Miss Silva's Courtesan School, an act of desperation that will cement her place in the lowest social status.’

What I struggled with, with it is unlike the books I would normally read, it doesn't have big events as such. So you’re just kind of enjoying the journey of it. The writing is beautiful, it's super lyrical, gorgeously described, really kind of evocative. But you don't have those big, oh my goodness moments. So I loved it, but I think unlike a thriller, it didn't feel like it had those key, key points as such.

Lucy: Yeah. So still an enjoyable reading experience, but not normally -it didn't tick all of your boxes maybe.

Jen: Definitely an enjoyable reading experience. I'm glad that I read it, but I don't think I would read it again, and I don't think I would read another book similar with quite so many pages, but I did enjoy it. 

Lex: Jen, do you feel that you are a plot reader or do you feel you can appreciate like character led books in the right feel for you?

Jen: I think I'm super plot driven, so unless it's nonfiction, in which case I love reading about the person, obviously. But I think with fiction, I like there to be a really strong plot. Otherwise I think that like, well, what am I reading? What am I hoping for? And how is this going to end?

Lucy: Did you go down a rabbit hole in Googling facts? Because anytime I read historical fiction, I always end up Googling facts or looking things up afterwards.

Jen:  I actually didn't. But to note, I did finish this when I was in Italy with you two, so I was kind of going down a bit of a rabbit hole, just eating loads of pizza. So in usual circumstances I may well have done.

Lucy: Yeah, it's -  I know what you mean about it is a very character led book. But I think for me that was what I really liked about it. Like the relationships between the different women, you know, kind of seeing what happens to them and how each of their stories unfolds. That was what I really enjoyed about it. But I'm glad you enjoyed it. I know it's way out of your normal reading comfort zone.

Jen: I think the relationships are fantastic and I liked how they evolved as they got older and there wasn't any distinct end to it. You got the feeling that the characters were going to go on creating their lives and interacting with each other like that was really, really well done.

So Lex, do you want to ask Lucy Jones about what she's been reading?

Lex: I have been dying to ask you about this book. Okay. So, Lucy, I recommended you one of my favourite Clare Mackintosh books. And I feel like you told me on surface level that you enjoyed it, but I would love to hear your in-depth review.

Lucy: Yeah, so I just have to supplement that with Lex not only recommended it, but gave it a ringing endorsement of it as the book with the best plot twist she has ever read. So I did go into it with very high expectations.

Lex: Which I still maintain. I still continue to read thriller fiction every day and this is still at the top of the list.

Lucy: Yeah, so I absolutely flew through this book. I could not put it down. I mean, yeah, not much of a thriller reader, and I think the bar has been set incredibly high. So I'll read the Blurb; ‘It's Clare Mackintosh. I Let You Go. A tragic accident. It all happened so quickly. She couldn't have prevented it, could she? In a split second, Jenna Gray's world descends into a nightmare. Her only hope of moving on is to walk away from everything she knows, to start afresh. Desperate to escape, Jenna moves to a remote cottage on the Welsh coast, but she is haunted by her fears, her grief and her memories of a cruel November night that changed her life forever. Slowly, Jenna begins to glimpse the potential for happiness in her future. But her past is about to catch up with her, and the consequences will be devastating.’

So Jen, what you were talking about with needing something to happen, the accident - it opens with the accident that's in the prologue like that happens straight away. And then I feel it's a slow build. So I didn't feel that I was waiting for anything to happen. I was slightly distracted because of what I knew about the plot twist. I was a bit distracted thinking, okay, well, what's it going to be? No, it can't be that. Well, that would just be too obvious because there’s two, it's really hard to talk about without giving it away because it's such a good book. I would hate to spoil it for anyone, but it's kind of two big dramatic reveal moments. One comes about midway through, and then the other one is at the end. I just just could not put it down. I was completely hooked. I thought the writing was very convincing, good character development, along with a kind of exciting plot as well. But yeah, I loved it. It is. It's very hard to talk about.

Lex: Sure.

Jen: Is that three out of three of us giving friend to the show Clare Mack five out of five for this one.

Lucy: I'd give it five out of five.

Lex: Yessss!

Lucy: I have to say - I mean, I definitely am going to continue reading crime fiction thrillers. Since reading this by Claire Mack, I've also read Ruth Ware, Erin Kelly and Colleen Hoover. So yeah, I think well, well and truly embracing the thrillers from now on. But like I say bar set very, very high with this as my introduction.

Lex: I was just going to say, you're starting with the giants!

Lucy: Point while I'm ahead!

Obviously, crime fiction is such a massive genre and you've got so many subgenres to kind of trickle down into. And I think, I mean, from what I can remember of - is somebody's phone ringing?

Jen: No, it's the ice cream man in the background of my house.

Lucy: Oh I want an ice cream now.

Lex: I want ice cream, mine's a Mr Whippy with a flake please Jen! So, yeah, so many subgenres that you can trickle down into. And I think from what I remember of I Let You Go, I would call it like a thriller. Maybe a little bit of a domestic noir with a kind of police procedural lilt to it. And I loved that. And I loved knowing that Claire Mackintosh was a police officer and did handle a very similar case to this. So knowing that when I was reading it, I'm going, okay, this feels so real and it feels so juicy. I also loved that the first reveal comes like you said midway through the book. I think I'm so used to reading crime fiction that leave, all of their twists, reveals, you know, changes to the very end of the book. So I was just like plodding through the pages, do, do, do, do. And then I get to it and I'm like, Oh my God. I had to go back a few pages and be like, what's going on?

Lucy: I was just going to ask if you did that because massive plot reveal, number one.  it's just so big that I went back through the book to skim what I had read to look for clues like how did I miss that where, you know, is there any hint to this? And it's just so cleverly done with the writing. It just doesn't give anything away, but it's realistic as well in line of what's what's happened. Yeah, so good!

Jen: So, Lex and I both read crime thriller fiction all the time. And this one-  and the plot twists are so good that when I was reading it, I was literally just messaging Lex in all capitals. Like, I cannot believe what is happening! So, so good. I think Lex would agree though -  I feel super jealous of you Lucy  just going into the start of this thriller thing. Because once you've read a ton of them, you get to a point where you kind of think, I know where this is going, actually, and you don't have that yet!

Lucy: Yeah, I'm at the start of a beautiful journey.

Lex: Beautiful or terrifying?

Jen: Yes, you are. 

Lucy: Yeah. Well, no, I know it was Lex who recommended this, but I know you are both avid thriller readers. Thank you for the recommendation, I loved that.

Lex: You're so welcome. And I love that you have already racked up a massive TBR and you’re working your way through the crime fiction giants. I think if you're going to recommend something and then somebody takes it to the extreme to say that they love the book and then they go away and they're like, yes, I want to read more or they want to read more that - it feels like a job well done if I'm honest.

Lucy: I do feel like yeah, Lex you especially - I  need to get you a t-shirt.

Lex: I would like a pin badge please that says top notch recommender.

Jen: So Lex, the book that I recommended you, Starve Acre - how did you get on? 

Lex: So I have a confession - and the confession is that I have not finished it.

Jen: Awful. 

Lex:  But I would like to preface. Well, I mean, I'm not prefacing it. I'm saying it after my reveal, the fact that I haven't finished it. But I would like to add as an addendum that I have every intention of finishing it. I did not not finish it because I didn't like it. My life just got in the way. And I think also this particular book for me, and I've never really found this before, but it feels like a winter book. I feel like - I was reading this when I was with you guys in Italy, and it was the first kind of summer sun that my body had seen for what felt like three years. And this book is set in a very snowy wintery. I think it might even just be over Christmas, almost like haunting there's wind rattling the windows vibe. So to be reading that and then waking up in the gorgeous Italian sunshine every day, it was really disjointing for me. So I think in favour of pizza, I put the book down.

Lucy: I think I've done that with a book before.

Lex: I mean, however, that being said, I really love kind of this more modern take on folklore horror. This I'm loving - I like the concept, I like the setting, I like the character and the interaction between the characters. The things that I need to learn to embrace a bit more with the book are the fact that, like you Jen, I'm a plot person, like I need pace and like, just consistent. What's the word? 

Jen: A small structure towards the next section? 

Lex: Yeah. Yeah, I need some, like, something that's going on. Whereas this book and I will read the blurb in just one second so you can get a bit of a feel for it. There are a lot of long, languid, lyrical sentences that feel almost poetic, but it's not poetry in any way. So at a point where I was just wanting to get through it and figure out what was going on and what was happening, the lyricism was asking me to slow down and was asking me to just like read the book as a journey. Whereas I didn't come to it for a journey. I came to it to know what's happening and to figure out, does that make sense?

Jen: Yeah, I kind of think that's the beauty of it, though. I mean, it's not one that's full on thrills, scared. It's that quiet, creeping feeling of something is going really wrong here and you need to slow it down to get that creeping feeling. 

Lex: Yeah, definitely. And I think the other thing with this book - actually let me read the blurb first. The worst possible thing has happened, ‘Richard and Juliet Willoughby's son, Ewan has died suddenly at the age of five. Starve Acre, their house by the Moors was to be full of life, but now is a haunted place. Juliet convinced you and still lives there in some form, seeks the help of the beacons a seemingly benevolent group of occultists, Richard, to try and keep the boy out of his mind has turned his attention to the field opposite the house, where he patiently digs the barren dirt in search of a legendary oak tree. Starve Acre is a novel about the way in which grief splits the world in two and how, in searching for hope, we can so easily unearth horror.’ Like that sounds sick, it sounds so good and I think that's what's exciting me to get to the end. But I do have a slight reservation about what the end might hold because there are a few almost like speculative thriller fictions that I've read where something is happening. You don't know what quite is happening. I suspend my disbelief for the entirety of the book, hoping that I'm going to get the payoff that I want at the end. Like I'm sure you realise, like I'm a bit of a black and white reader when it comes to thrillers, like, but that's not real or but that's magic, that doesn't count. And there have been a kind of like a few supernatural fantasy verses reality. Is it magic or is it mental health? Like that's a big conversation, I feel, and there are a few things that I read recently that I felt let down with when the answer is magic. So there's a part of me that hopes that that's not the end here. I mean, I'm willing to suspend my beliefs a little bit, but the reason I don't read science fiction is because I hate the plot loop of, Oh, it's aliens. Obviously, I'm not expecting any aliens here, but as long as it keeps treading that line between horror and folklore, that's fine. I think anything further afield of that, I'm not sure.

Jen: I will say the ending is super weird. Like, it's really good. 

Lex: Okay. All right, I'll get on board. I will get on board. Well, I'm about 100 pages away from the book that I'm currently reading, so then I will bump this one back up to the top of my TBR, finish it, get you my final review.

Jen: Perfect.

Lex: But I would read more things in a similar ilk. But I almost feel like I need you to read them first.

Jen:  This is what you’re like with nonfiction though Lex. When I recommend you new nonfiction, you say yeah, I'll read this when you've read that and said it's good. 

Lex: Yeah, yeah. Then you know, if I'm going to be a top class recommender who gets a pin badge, then I need to know that it's gone through a few different hands first.

Jen: Okay, so essentially, I am the reader's reader. 

Lex: Yeah, well, we need you to sense check stuff. make sure it's worth your time. Jen, we've all got TBR’s that are easily ten, twenty books long. If I'm going to bump something up to the top, it's got to be worth it. 

Jen: This serves me right for being the woman that will only keep five unread books in her house, doesn't it? Like if I'm going to have so few unread books, I have to expect people are going to think I'm going to get through them quickly.

Lucy: You know, Jen, I was thinking about this the other day that your exact stat -  I was looking at my bookshelf like well reorganizing my TV are less basically and then looking at how many of read not read. And yet that popped into my head and I was like ‘Jen would be disappointed if she could see the amount of books that are unread in my bookshelf.’

Lex: I saw a TikTok maybe yesterday or maybe even this morning that said, if you own more than a thousand books, it counts as a library. And I'm like, okay, I'm looking at the books in front of me and they're easily 100 books in this room, and I don't even live in this house like I'm thinking about the storage locker that I own. I'm thinking about the books leftover at my parents house. I definitely own a library worth of books.. 

Jen: I read loads, but I will give them to everyone. So the other day, no exaggeration, somebody was painting my front door and I'm sat on my sofa working from home and he's just kind of tradesman chatting at me, saying, ‘Oh, what do you do?’ And like I said,’ I'm doing books right now’. And he said, ‘oh, I'm a massive reader’. So then I thought, Ooh, stood up, made  a massive pile of books, probably about fifteen books and was like ‘here you go, just take these, never bring them back, read them’. I will give books to anyone.

Lucy: You’re like the exotic anonymous book donator.

Jen:  I'm a book pusher.

Lex: I think that's where I fall down. I'm like, No, no, no. I can't do that I need that book to put on my shelf.

Lucy: One of my friends is a big thriller reader and I've already said to her, ‘Have you read this book?’ and I said, I will give her my copy. But yeah, if I've really enjoyed it, I've just there's always that, always in the back of my head that's like, but I might want to read it again. So I'm always nervous to give it away.

Jen: You know we should share with the listeners the perfect anecdote that illustrates this, which also links in to some content we're going to post on Instagram. So when we were in Italy together, we found a Little Free Library and we all had our books and we were like ‘oh, let's do a little reel of us all putting our books that we're reading into the Little Free Library’. So we did that. And then what happened Lex?

Lex:  We went about our day, we had some lunch, we did some work, and then just as we were kind of like packing up our cafe to leave and get on with our evenings, I turned to Jen, and I was like ‘Jen, where are our books that we used this morning for our reel?’ And a kind of , there was a moment where this energy passed between us as I was panicking and Jen seemed to know exactly what was going on. Jen was like, we put them in the Little Free Library. I'm like, ‘But Jen, I have not finished that book yet’. And even if I have finished it, I'm not ready to let it go. I don't feel like my relationship with that book is over. So what did I do? What did I do and what did I make you do Jen?

Jen:  Requested that I run back to the Little Free Library and retrieve not only yours, but Lucy's. Because you knew Lucy would also want to keep her book from the Little Free Library. So, in fact, the only book that got left there was mine.

Lucy: One out of three is not bad.

Lex: It  sums up who we are as readers. There you go. And now the people of Roseto have got some wonderful lyrical historical fiction to enjoy. 

Jen: Exactly that. And I think that's probably an excellent note to end this episode on.  

Lex: Sounds perfect. So Jen listen, thank you so much for this recommendation. I'm sorry that I haven't finished reading it, but I will. And that is a promise. You can hold me accountable and I'm stoked to pick up another title from this genre. 

Jen: And we want to hear all about your thriller reading Luce.

Lucy: Yeah I'll keep you both updated. May it be a long and beautiful journey of Lucy and the new world of thrillers.

Lex: I feel like every time I read a good book now I'm going to be like, ‘Hey, Lucy Jones, guess what? You need to add this to your list’.

Lucy: I did start off with the giants, so I'm nervous when I read a mediocre one because it's just going to be a crushing disappointment.

Lex: It'll be fine. Between Jen and I and all of the listeners, we will be able to keep you stocked I feel with excellent thriller recommendations.

Lucy: I think so.

Lex: We can guide you through your journey so that you actually never have to read a bad book.

Lucy: Oh, my God. You’re like my thriller fairy godmothers!

Lex: Okay, no, I want that on a pin. That's what I want on a pin. 

Right. Okay. Let's wrap this up. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. And if you guys have recommendations on thrillers, on horror, on any kind of like folklore weaving narratives on historical fiction or on anything that you think either of the three of us would really enjoy, please do send them in, because we would absolutely love to hear them. And we will, of course, shout you out if your book turns out to be the next best thing. But probably nothing's going to knock Clare off the top spot. I'm just going to give you that. I think that's it from us today.

Jen: That’s it, goodbye guys!  

Lex: Thanks, guys. See you later. 

Jaide: As always, we're open to your feedback. So please do hit us up at @TandemcollectiveUK on Instagram or using the hashtag #tandemcollectivetalks. If there's anyone content creator wise, industry superstars or your favourite author that you think we should speak to on the podcast then let us know!

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